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Jimi Hazel
Special Sepia Guest Star

Number of posts : 260
Age : 55
Localisation : The Boogie Down Bronx!
Registration date : 2005-11-28


Hola Fam! While watching Headbanger's Ball, I could not help but notice that all the quote-on-quote heavy "White" rock bands reduce the music to a childish, redneck or demonic cartoon like cliche. Ironically, while watching BET/MTV, I could not help but notice that the quote-on-quote "Black" artists do the same thing - but in a different way, reducing the music to a thuggish, pimpish, stereotypical cartoon like cliche. In both genres, not all the artists appear that way but a good 98 & 3/4% do! Once again, I can see why a band like us, who has sold almost 8000 units on our own could NOT find a label to pick us up-we're not pimps, thugs, clowns, or willing to cite the devil as one of our influences! My question to all of you is do you recognize the racist & stereotypical visions the record companies push in both the "urban" and "rock" genres? And if so, why does the audiences for both genres seem to be fine with it? Me personally, I'm tired of both genres pushing cliches instead of pushing better bands and better music. Your thoughts?
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Pierre, zfsf
can sell his body for a new spyz album

Number of posts : 230
Localisation : France
Registration date : 2005-11-26


First of all, i'm gonna speak in a subject who will oblige me to say "black, or white", and i don't like it much... Blood is red everywhere... I will also speak just as an asshole would do...

Music Market is the shit, that's of course... Is Camille Claudel 's artwork inferior quality than Rodin's one ? Because she's a woman ?
Why one of the most popular rap artist in the world is Eminem ( a white guy)?
I would prefear to not go in your way Jimi, but i must admit that the Genre is the dead of an expression way... It confines the music in the limit of the walls erected around by the "Genre"...
And the Genre is what helps much the majors, to exactly know where they are gonna sell their new shit, it helps the sellers to know axactly where they are gonna put the cd's in the departement of their stores, and it helps the poor audience to stay in his references, instead of trying the hasard... The new things they propose are only the things that already sold before, but wih another sound, or another rythm behind...
And what's the matter with color in this shit ???
The same...
As we all know that story about this man who sold his soul to the devil on a well known 66 road, it's obvious for us to hear blues music played by black person... But did the best songs of stevie ray Vaughan are not real good Blues because he was a white guy ???

The difference is in the eye of the one who's looking at you.

As i 'm not quiet sure to have answered your question Jimi, i would like to add another exemple , just in the hope of giving you strenght and patience (if you have some left)... Most of the people prefear to eat at Mac Donalds than doing themselves the Burgers... Most of the people would like to taste shit if there was an advertising on it on TV... And that's exactly what they do...
So majors don't want to take the risk of changing the sauce in the cheeseburger, because peoples don't like to have their habits changed...
Stereotypical cartoon like cliche is perfect for these kind of people...
Remember Garth in the movie Wayne's World ? "we're scared of the changing things "...

Do you recognize the racist & stereotypical visions the record companies push in both the "urban" and "rock" genres?

And if so, why does the audiences for both genres seem to be fine with it?
(Now for my asshole answer:) Because most of the people does where we say them to do... They don't have time to search, to taste, taste something new is an effort, effort is hard to do, music is not so important and do not need an effort in their mind... Fashion kills everything every years...What are you really waiting from people who think they define themselves with their clothes, from people who think that the last beautifull car will give people a good image of themselves... And I don't really think this is gonna change, as far as people will not open their ears or brain... Majors are happy, it's easy like this...

And just for a reminder, even if you already know it, I can understand your anger, or weariness about this, but i see this with my eyes from far away, and i wanna say: Bumblefoot is an excellentissimus musician, he heard your music, and he decided to come and play with you... It means you 've been recognized by your pars and that's the most important thing...Being recognized by idiots is not so great...
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View user profile http://chez-piw.forumactif.com/
Absolute Fanatic

Number of posts : 60
Localisation : Toronto, Canada
Registration date : 2005-11-29


Geez, that's really a tough question Jimi... one that is probably less black and white and more grey.

The easy answer is that people are stupid and record companies are greedy, although I don't think that statement is entirely true. Well, except the record company part Laughing

I think a lot of it has to do with, as Pierre said, habits. People are trained from an early age to be lazy mentaly... and it's easier to listen to crap and not care, than it is to listen to something that unfolds with the more attention you give it. It's easier for a record company to spend a million on a piece of crap, flash-in-the-pan if they think it'll grab people's attention short-term and sell a butt-load of land-fill, than it is for them to spread out that same million on a number of promising artists helping them to develop their audience as a long term investment. There seems to be far less creative people in the music industry (at least at the majors) than ever before... at least one's that are allowed to do anything.

The sad truth is, that our society rewards stupidity. From an early age, people are constantly reinforced with the whole 'money, big cars, big houses, more stuff, MORE STUFF!!!! That's where it's at. That's what will make you better than him.' ...and then we'll put you on tv and show everyone how much better you are. Record companies feed this cycle because it gives them the quickest return on their investment. So many genres of music (and especially film) have been reduced over the years to pale brainless stereotypes of what they once were... at least in the mainstream media. It's easier to make, it's easier to sell, and easier to dump when the ride is over. Less effort, bigger return, short term.

I'm starting to think that's why record companies are really afraid of the internet... because there are so many artists out there doing their own thing who have the potential to make a better living that way, than they ever could signed to a label.

Ok, I think I went off on a couple of tangents there, lol! Back to work!

Take care all.

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le canard fou
Ze only Duck who listen 24-7 Spyz

Number of posts : 120
Age : 46
Localisation : Paris
Registration date : 2005-12-13


That's right!
i've never seen any duck on a MTV show!


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Number of posts : 1
Age : 47
Localisation : Virginia Beach, VA
Registration date : 2006-11-13

PostSubject: Sad but true   Mon 20 Nov - 11:14

The reason "popular" music is what it is these days is the market people are trying to sell to. Lets face it, teenagers in this country decide what sells and what doesn't. Hip hop is the dominating force in todays teens so naturally that is what is selling. Where I live it is cool to be "thuggish/gangsta" among the young crowd. The really funny part is the fashion, and I am not just talking about clothes, I'm talking the lingo and everything. I see this a lot because I work with a lot of young teens. They speak with this what they think is a ghetto dialect. Please don't flame me for these statements but, a lot of these young white and black people come from good homes with good upbringing, have never really seen a real "hood" but claim to come from one. What is really sad is the young white kids speaking and dressing like "they think" black people speak and dress and honestly, I've never met any black people that speak or dress like these kids do. I'm referring more to the gangsta thug fashion here because that is what I see more of in my area where I live. I don't notice so much the whole satanic shit so much, I thought that all died in the early 90's with Venom and Slayer and Danzig and so on.
It all boils down to what these punk ass wanna be gangstas buy with their allowance. The whole gangsta thug thing is appealing to these young kids and why I don't know. When I was a teen is was all about getting drunk and getting laid. None of which involved selling drugs or busting caps in people's asses.
As a musician I can appreciate good musicianship and well written music. Its also sad that all you need is a shitty sequenced track and a catchy hook and you will have all of suburban america jumping up and down and getting crunk yo. I guess all you need to do is dumb down your music and lyrics and the country will listen.

Fuck all that shit!
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